Who Interrupts More? The Truth About Manterruptions
Is there really a gender bias in communication? Lisa B. Marshall, aka The Public Speaker, examines the evidence and suggests solutions.
Lisa B. Marshall
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Who Interrupts More? The Truth About Manterruptions
I recently posted two articles about people who interrupt. In the first, Why Do People Interrupt?, I explained the many causes of interruption. Then in the second I discussed how to stop someone who constantly interrupts, both gently and not so gently. But this series would not be complete without addressing what actually inspired the episodes. It was an email from a listener whose new boss, a woman, interrupted him frequently. When I read it I had to ask myself: does she really interrupt him more than a male manager would, or does it just seem that way to him?
Either could be the case, because there is, unfortunately, a gender-related catch to this. Allow me to explain.
Gender Bias in Business Communication
I know from large amounts of academic research, my own work with executives, and many real-life examples, that men interrupt more in business meetings than women do. And in fact, they interrupt women far more than they interrupt men. A very interesting, non-rigorous investigation by linguist Kiran Snyder found several things. First, people interrupt a lot. Second, men interrupt more than woman overall. Men are almost three times as likely to interrupt women as they are to interrupt other men. Women interrupt each other constantly, but almost never interrupt men. Many more rigorous academic studies show similar results. There’s even a humorous but unsettling (and somewhat controversial) YouTube video called Manterruptions, showing many public examples of it.
I noticed this bias played out in the September presidential primary debate, when Chris Christie stopped Carly Fiorina, the only woman on stage, from interrupting him. In a way, Chris Christie was alluding to this bias when he characterized Fiorina in a later interview as being rude. Although he said that he wouldn’t treat her any differently on a debate stage just because she was a woman, the fact is that EVERYONE interrupts on a debate stage. It’s part of the process. And he didn’t call the male candidates rude when they interrupted.
And in a perfect example of irony, Google executive chairman Eric Schmidt was caught manterrupting while on a Silicon Valley panel on gender and diversity. And he wasn’t doing it to just anyone; he was doing it to the only woman on the panel (sound familiar?) who just happened to be the U.S. Chief Technology Officer Megan Smith. He was called out on this by Google’s global diversity manager, who pointed out in front of the audience, “Given that unconscious bias research tells us that women are interrupted a lot more than men, I’m wondering if you are aware that you have interrupted Megan many more times.” Ouch. That could not have felt good!
Resisting the Bias Comes at a Price
Unfortunately, studies seem to indicate that, at least in the current climate, the only way for women to really move up in the corporate world is to interrupt back. The old saying, “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” seems to be the only workable solution right now. In the Slate article that describes Snyder’s investigation, she says, “The results suggest that women don’t advance in their careers beyond a certain point without learning to interrupt,” at least in a male-dominate tech setting. In fact, the investigation by Snyder showed that the only women who ever interrupted men happened to be high ranking in the company.
I’m sure that during her long career in technology, Ms. Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard, had plenty of practice (and possibly even coaching) interrupting others and allowing her opinions to be known in a male-dominated industry. And maybe my listener’s boss did, too. But that forcefulness comes at a price.
Most powerful executive women learn that speaking up more often leads to penalties in perceptions of competence and likability. That is, successful female leaders learn to carefully choose when to speak up because they learn over time that speaking up too often leads to being disliked. Women who assert themselves are often labeled as bossy, or worse. Gender bias research suggests that women are actually penalized more for interrupting. The research (and again my experience) shows that when a woman speaks up in meetings, she is either barely heard or judged as too aggressive. Men have much more leeway for this agentic behavior.
And this extends beyond just interrupting. Actress Jennifer Lawrence made a lot of press last year when, after the Sony hack, she discovered that she was making way less money than her male counterparts. But what this discovery made her realize was that she was being treated differently in other ways, too. Here’s a direct quote from her article in the online newsletter, Lenny:
A few weeks ago at work, I spoke my mind and gave my opinion in a clear and no-bull t way; no aggression, just blunt. The man I was working with (actually, he was working for me) said, “Whoa! We’re all on the same team here!” As if I was yelling at him. I was so shocked because nothing that I said was personal, offensive, or, to be honest, wrong. All I hear and see all day are men speaking their opinions, and I give mine in the same exact manner, and you would have thought I had said something offensive.
The Ideal Solution to Gender Biased Communication
There is a subconscious expectation about how women should behave.
Obviously, all this talk about male and female communication is just generalization. But for many women, this is their reality. I can tell you the question of how to handle men who interrupt comes up every time I speak to a group of highly competent woman professionals. There is a subconscious expectation about how women should behave. And it’s not just a description of appropriate behavior for women: it’s a society prescription. When women deviate from that expectation, they’re penalized.
So what’s the solution? Should women be expected to act like men, or men like women? Is it productive to call men sexist or assume men are doing things purposely to put down women? I don’t think these are successful approaches.
I think the best approach is to handle it the way we handle cultural differences: with education.
I often suggest that women create a trusted colleagues group (that includes both women and men) to be sure they are heard. I suggest each member of this group make an explicit agreement that when an important interruption occurs to a member of the group, another member will call attention to the interruption. It might sound like this, “George, I’d like to hear your thoughts, but I don’t think Sally was finished. Sally?” or “Marc, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I’d like to hear the rest of Sally’s idea first.”
From a broader perspective, it’s important for professionals who work with diverse cultures to take the time to learn about how that culture communicates best. For instance, people who work with Japanese companies learn that, in the Japanese culture, to say no directly is considered rude. The same awareness could be used in business for the different linguistic styles often found in men and women.
Deborah Tannen, linguist at Georgetown University and author of You Just Don’t Understand: Women and Men in Conversation, explains that women tend to see conversation as an opportunity to make a connection, while men see it more as an opportunity to share information or determine status. Our communication patterns are developed in childhood, when girls tend to play in small groups with lots of chatter, while boys tend to focus on physical activities, where one or a few boys are the leaders and tell everyone what to do. I’m sure you remember this pattern from your elementary school days.
So the answer could just be as simple as education. I recently interviewed Kristen Pressner, a VP working in human resources at Roche Diagnostics, a company with over 90,000 employees. It was one of my favorite interviews. I asked her about this problem, and she has found that simply drawing attention to it, in a good-natured or humorous manner, usually solves the problem for her. Awareness makes a difference. (Read my previous article for more practical tips on how to stop someone who constantly interrupts.)
So maybe that’s where we need to start. Let’s keep making people aware of the situation, without pointing fingers or calling names. If we can learn to understand people of different cultures, we can certainly learn to understand how to communicate effectively with the opposite sex.
This is Lisa B. Marshall helping you to lead and influence. If you’d like to learn more about compelling communication, I invite you to read my bestselling books, Smart Talk and Ace Your Interview and listen to my other podcast, Smart Talk. As always, your success is my business.
About the Author
Lisa B. Marshall Lisa holds masters with duel degrees in interpersonal/intercultural communication and organizational communication. She’s the author of Smart Talk: The Public Speaker’s Guide to Success in Every Situation, as well as Ace Your Interview, Powerful Presenter, and Expert Presenter. Her work has been featured in CBS Money Watch, Ragan.com, Woman’s Day, Glamour, Cosmopolitan, and many others. Her institutional clients include Johns Hopkins Medicine, Harvard University, NY Academy of Science, University of Pennsylvania, Genentech, and Roche.